A Discusson of Fruitarianism & Dr. Doug Graham’s 80/10/10 Version of the Raw Food Diet

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1) A prayer for the New Year

2) Rhio and Leigh launch internet radio station: www.TribecaRadio.net

3) Fruitarian Diet and 80/10/10 Fruitarian Diet (This information was sent out in parts 1, 2, 3 & 4, but I’ve combined them here)

4) Feedback

1) My fervent prayer for the New Year

Dear God, All That Is…

I know and feel that our beautiful little planet Earth is on its way up to the long awaited 4th dimension of peace as promised by many of the spiritual teachers, past and present. I know and feel that all the turmoil and war and earth movements, such as earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunami’s, etc. are part of the necessary change. All the people who have lost their lives in either these natural disasters or in our unGodly, misbegotten war on foreign lands are a part of the transformation. My human brain/soul/body does not understand all the reasons why it has to be this way. I do not pretend to understand the reasons for suffering in the world, the reasons for dead and maimed American soldiers, for dead and maimed Iraqis and Afghans… for dead and maimed tsunami and Katrina and Pakistan victims… my human brain/soul/body does not comprehend it and is not at peace with it… but my God soul, my superconscious is saying to me… be at peace… be happy… be joyful… so I am at once not at peace, but at a deeper level, peace resides.

Isn’t that the way it is with all life? There are some things that are so satisfying and blissful and perfect, and other things… well those other things need some work, and understanding and most of all, enlightenment… it’s an ongoing lesson in living and learning in this school of life… called Earth.

My prayer is that all those that suffered and are suffering still, can find some solace in knowing that they are a part of our earth’s transformation into the higher realms of peace and creativity. I will do my tiny part, as well I know how, to help hasten us to the epiphany.

God bless our Earth and all the people on it. God bless all the nations of the world and their leaders. God bless America and enlighten our leaders so that they act in our behalf with honesty, compassion and humility. God bless us. May we always live with our consciousness ever opening up to all possibilities and may we always choose the paths that benefit both ourselves and all those around us. Amen.

2) Rhio and Leigh launch internet radio station

For over a year we have been trying to launch a healthy lifestyle oriented internet radio station called LongevityRadio.com but circumstances and a lack of sufficient funding have prevented that from happening as yet. We still have it on our agenda for a launch later this year. Hold that thought!!!

But, in the meantime, we have launched: [www.TribecaRadio.net] Tribeca Radio will broadcast from our studios in the world famous Tribeca neighborhood of New York City, offering community news, great music mix, political views, school news, spotlight on business and last but not least, healthy lifestyles information, including my show Hooked on Raw which can be heard twice a day at 4 and 8 PM EST. You can tune in from anywhere in the world, just compute the right time based on 4 PM Eastern Standard Time (USA). In the near future the shows will also be available for podcasting and archived on the website.

If you tune in now, the programming will look sparse, but we hope you stick with us during our “growing pains” and be assured that within 30-60 days there will be a solid block of health-oriented shows with a substantial focus on the raw/live food community. We have an impressive lineup of guests and hosts that have promised to come on board with us. Please pass this information along to those who might be interested. [www.TribecaRadio.net] and, if you can give the station a link on your website (if you have one), we would be most appreciative. TribecaRadio.net… a truly independent radio station by the people, for the people… radio as it was meant to be.

If you are interested in being a guest on my show or in being a host on the station, or are interested in very low-cost targeted advertising, please email Leigh Crizoe at: Leigh@TribecaRadio.net

This week the Hooked on Raw show will air an interview with Dr. Fred Bisci entitled “A Caution about Fruitarianism”

3) Fruitarian Diet and 80/10/10 Version of the Fruitarian Raw Diet 

Rhio: The two diets above are very similar in that they advocate either all fruit or a lot of fruit.

80/10/10 is a fruitarian diet with very low protein and fat. It’s called 80/10/10 because it advocates 80% fruit or carbohydrate, 10% protein and 10% fat.

The impetus for this discussion of the fruitarian and 80/10/10 diets began over one year ago when I received various emails from Chase Masters (chasemasters2003@yahoo.com), who told me that a certain website was eliminating the posts of anyone who had a negative experience with the fruitarian or 80/10/10 diet. This did not appeal to my sense of fairness and transparency and so I said I would make a spot on my website to post the letters and discussion.

My idea of a balanced and well-rounded raw food diet for humans includes foods from all categories, except meat, fish and dairy. I believe in being INCLUSIVE, rather than exclusive, including as many different types and varieties of fruits and vegetables as possible with moderate consumption of soaked and/or sprouted nuts and seeds. I also include roots, baby sprouts, leafy greens, soaked and sprouted legumes, soaked and sprouted grains in moderation, bee products, fermented seed cheese & yogurt, sauerkraut, wild vegetables (sometimes called edible weeds), sea vegetables, good quality oils, small amounts of dehydrated snacks occasionally, etc. I also believe in low heat processed, food-based supplements when needed or desired.

So, from the above, you can surmise that the fruitarian diet or 80/10/10 version of it would not be my idea of a balanced approach to the raw food diet. 80/10/10 seems to be a rigid standard to try to fit everybody into. People are very individual in their lifestyles and nutritional needs and so some people might need more protein and/or fat than others. One size does not fit all.

However, I do hope to present the discussion in a fair way and have sought out people who believe they are successfully implementing a fruitarian or 80/10/10 diet and included their letters or my interviews with them or links to their websites.

Dr. Fred Bisci has also consented to share his views pertaining to fruitarian diets. (Please listen to my interview with Dr. Bisci on: TribecaRadio.net this week – later it will be archived). Dr. Bisci’s perspective and some of my own thoughts will appear scattered throughout the hotline series, but the letters really stand on their own. Some of the letters are quite long but I did not want to edit anything out. This series is really meant for people who are interested in either the fruitarian or 80/10/10 fruitarian diet and are either on it or contemplating implementing it.

Some letters are in a series of two or more as they were sharing with the group in the chatroom. There are some people on a fruitarian diet that include raw meat, fish and dairy – that is the subject for another discussion and so will not be included here, except in passing, or as mentioned in some of the letters.

The entire Newsletter will be sent in several installments. Some people have agreed to include their email addresses in case you want to communicate with them further about their experiences. I thank all those who have agreed to share and participate.

Dr. Graham sent me a communication in which he advised me to contact every person to make sure the letters were not altered and that they were genuine and I have taken his advice. I consider Dr. Graham a friend and support and agree with many of his ideas. On my part I do not consider that we all have to agree on every single issue to continue to collaborate in the bigger picture of opening up the information and discussion of the raw food diet and lifestyle to the mainstream community at large.

Dr. Graham’s website for info on 80/10/10: http://www.foodnsport.com/mambo2/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=2&id=66&Itemid=60

Also: http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/index.html

In a message dated 9/14/04 chasemasters2003@yahoo.com writes:

from Chase to Rhio:

Yes, Exciting to read your findings on the raw diet.

I loved your book, especially the extremely well researched info on hybridizing and genetic engineering. You inspired me to go and study wild foods here, now I get about 20% of my food that way. Out of all the raw teachers I have the warmest spot for you.

I too have been at the center of many people contacting me with their experiences on a raw diet, low fat ala Doug Grahams 811 program.

I used to think he knew what he was talking about more then most teachers on raw, turns out because his program is so restrictive on the foods it eliminates or reduces that people have actually collapsed, passed out, woke up in hospitals, had teeth and hair fall out etc etc…really the most dangerous of all the raw diets, especially for an athlete. This may come as a surprize to you as it would have me, just read the emails of people that have been on it longterm to find out. Really incredible stuff.

The responses I got from people on it have been downright startling, if you would like me to share some of these emails with you I’d be happy to. I have their permission. I posted their emails on Doug Grahams Vegsource.com rawchat room that he hosts just yesterday, and along with the questions that ensued from all of the members he took them all off the site, or at least I expect gave his authorization to do so, as well as every post I made there since February of this year. He really didn’t want the genie to get out of the bottle, this is some very hot information in the raw community in these peoples years of experiences on a low fat raw vegan diet.

I also am grateful to be on your mailing list at this time, If you would like to be on our user group email of about 50-100 people who are users and researchers discussing raw vegan and Doug’s 811 let me know too, just give me the email you want all of it to go to. It won’t flood you with emails, just an occasional one here and there.

from Rhio to Denise

Dear Denise,

Thank you for giving your permission. I appreciate it. I’m really sorry you had such a poor experience with this version of the raw diet, but thank goodness that you are well now. …

Once my hotlines go out to my elist, they are then posted on my website in the Hotlines Section, so they are always there for new people also to peruse.

Do you want me to include your email in the hotline or leave it out? Please let me know and thank you again.

With blessings and peace,


In a message dated 1/18/05 2:04:19 PM,

Denise (sapphireflies@yahoo.com) writes:


I’d love to share my 80/10/10 experiences with you, and have them included in the hotline. Feel free to use anything from the e-mail Chase forwarded you, and I’d be happy to answer any specific questions you might have. …

I think this hotline is a wonderful idea–right now, there isn’t an accurate representation of everyone’s experiences on 80/10/10. Any negative or “challenging” posts seem to get deleted from the Vegsource board. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

Feel free to include my e-mail in the hotline.

from Denise:

Hi Chase,

Here is the long account of my raw vegan “journey.” I’ll try to include everything that is even remotely relevant so that you can get a clear picture of my history. And yes, I’m probably the “girl under 20” that she referred to 🙂 Although I do know at least two other girls my age who ran into problems similar to my own while attempting the 80/10/10 diet. (I can provide details on them, too, if you’re interested; in a nutshell, one switched off of a high-fruit raw diet and now follows Gabriel Cousens’ recommendations, complete with a multitude of supplements, but she is still very underweight. The other, after several years attempting raw vegan diets, switched to a partially raw/partially cooked “Weston A. Price”-style diet with meat and is doing extremely well.)

For starters, I am currently 17 years old. I became a vegetarian when I was 8, by my own choice. When I turned 11, I developed something like a chronic flu that lasted the entire year–constant congestion, trouble breathing, fatigue, circles under my eyes, and so forth. No one could figure out was wrong with me; doctors put me on all sorts of medication, gave me skin tests for allergies, and blood tests. The medication didn’t work, and all the tests came back normal. I got a CAT scan which revealed inflamed adenoids (near the tonsils), so I went in for surgery to have them removed. The surgeons said they’d never seen adenoids that were so infected. Unfortunately, even after they were out, none of my symptoms improved.

I finally went to a naturopathic physician who immediately suspected a food allergy (which wouldn’t show up on skin-prick allergy tests). She put me on a food elimination diet. We discovered that I was severely allergic to wheat, and also had minor allergies to (cow) dairy and soy. Avoiding these foods completely stopped my symptoms. Unfortunately, these foods also made up the majority of my diet. From then on, I had to read “everything” on labels and learn about the various derivatives of wheat, dairy, and soy.

I tell you this little prelude to the real topic (raw food) because it shows how early I became concerned with food. I basically started studying diet and nutrition when the rest of my friends still thought boys had cooties. So alternative diets were always something I was familiar with, and healing medical problems through diet was an interest of mine ever since I found out some foods could make me so sick.

Flash forward to age 14. I stumbled upon a website advocating the “raw food diet,” which I had never heard of before. I thought it seemed a little suspicious–where do you get protein? what, no grains? all that fruit?–but I was intensely curious, so I did more research. I found tons of anectdotal experiences about how this-or-that was miraculously cured, effortless weight loss, no more colds or flus. The more I read, the more I became convinced. It didn’t take long before I was sold on the idea that cooked food was the root of all disease. If animals in the wild don’t put fire on their foods, why should we?

The first resource I came upon was Doug Graham’s board on Vegsource. I lurked for a long time, reading about the 80/10/10 diet. I loved the simplicity of the plan; all the other raw food diets promoted supplements or weird superfoods that I knew I couldn’t afford. Doug’s posts seemed so convincing, so authoritative, that I immediately trusted him and his statements. I also assumed he was a medical doctor (only later did I learn that he was a chiropractor), adding to his air of authority.

So I embarked on the low-fat raw-vegan diet. Since I was already a vegetarian and couldn’t have dairy–and didn’t care much for eggs–it was really easy going straight to vegan. Not to mention, from the posts on Vegsource, I was convinced that any type of animal product was deadly and unnatural anyway. I loaded up on bananas, mangos, papayas, etc. and romaine lettuce and celery. I copied the eating patterns and diets of the “regulars” on Vegsource who sometimes posted their food logs, to make sure I was doing it right. Let me tell you… I was PUMPED about this diet. I was euphoric and ecstatic and giddy. I almost felt selfish eating my fruit meals and watching everyone else chow down on cooked “poison,” filling their bodies with toxins and shaving years off their lives. I hate to say it, but I felt superior in a lot of ways, having found this secret to Paradise Health. I eagerly anticipated a life full of energy, youthfulness, and lack of disease.

And I really did feel excellent at first. So much energy–nothing could bring me down! I was happy and even got some comments about how I seemed to “glow.” The first sign something was wrong came about two or three months after starting the diet. I was losing weight, despite eating almost 3000 calories a day. Considering I was only 115 pounds to start with (on a 5’5″ frame), I found this to be a bit alarming, but assumed it was just my body shedding “toxins” stored in the fat cells so it could regenerate–something I had read in a lot of testimonials. So I didn’t think much more of it, and decided I would be okay getting down to as low as 100 pounds if that’s what my body needed to do. As long as I was eating plenty, I didn’t see the problem.

Well, 100 pounds came later that year. And then 95 came. And when I almost hit 90, my parents confronted me one night in tears. My dad thought I was anorexic (which I wasn’t; I didn’t care about my weight, I just wanted to stay RAW) and my mom told me I looked like a concentration camp victim. Neither of them had been very supportive of my diet, so I thought this was some sort of attack on raw foodism. How could I POSSIBLY be unhealthy on the raw vegan diet, the secret to Paradise Health? I was going through detox, didn’t they understand?

During this time, I should also mention that a number of other problems arose. Even before I lost so much weight, my hair had begun to fall out in clumps, so much that it was about half the thickness as it was originally (I knew this because the hair bands that used to wrap twice around a ponytail could now fit around four times and still be loose). What was left of my hair was dry and straw-like. A dentist visit after 6 months on the diet revealed severe dental erosion–even though I almost never ate citrus, and certainly did not eat many nuts (which was named as the culprit for dental problems by people on Doug’s board). My “boundless energy” had sizzled down to intermittent fatigue and hyperactivity. I lost all muscle tone, despite weight training. I often felt dizzy and lightheaded, and my heart would skip beats. My skin got dry and cracked. My period stopped. I had a strange spacey feeling that caused me to do careless things like lose my purse (which I did twice), leave my coat on the bus (again, twice!) and forget about commitments with people or homework assignments. I used to be as sharp as a tack, a straight A student–but I was struggling in all my classes. No one complimented me on my “glow” anymore, but I often got concerned glances and people asking if I was “Okay” or remarking that I looked pale. Was all this due to a low weight? No–because these things started when I was still 110 pounds!

However, I was 100% sure that I was going through detox and my body was simply regenerating. No one could have convinced me otherwise. Certainly not my parents. Regardless, they dragged me kicking and screaming (literally!) to the doctor’s office–the same naturopath who had diagnosed my food allergies. When I went to my appointment, I had printed out a number of articles Doug Graham had written–especially one about how being “undermuscled” was the real culprit for skinniness, not being “underfat.” I showed this article proudly to the doctor to explain why I was so skinny, and that I simply needed more muscle, which I could build easily once my detox was over. Well, it turns out there IS such thing as being underfat–especially for a female. I got my body fat measured, to reveal that I had only 5.7% body fat; anything under 10%, even for athletes, can do irreverseable damage on reproductive organs and bones. I also got my blood drawn for a blood test and an amino acid profile, to reveal how my body was utilizing protein (which I believed, as I had been told, was more than abundant in fruits and vegetables alone).

The doctor said she was certain I had some deficiencies and that I needed more protein and fat. She said the overabundance of carbs and lack of protein was what was causing me to lose so much weight; even with enough calories, my body was burning muscle because of amino acid deficiencies. I kept my mouth shut, but I disagreed with everything she said. She recommended I eat protein powder or goat dairy to see if I could tolerate it, and eggs. I told her that first I wanted to see the results of my blood test–which I was CERTAIN would turn out to be impeccable, because of my wonderful diet–and then I would listen to her suggestions.

A week later, she called with the results. I expected to hear her tell me, somewhat guiltily, that everything looked great and to keep doing what I was doing. The first thing she said was: “We have some serious problems here.” My heart sank. I listend to her tick off all the areas I was deficient in: “Extremely anemic… B12 levels are low enough to begin causing neurological damage… folate deficiency, probably in connection to the B12 deficiency… electrolytes are so imbalanced that I recommend you get an EKG to see if you have done heart damage… T cell count in thyroid is disturbed because your body is burning muscle tissue and is effecting the thyroid gland…”

And then, she explained what my amino acid profile had revealed: I was protein deficient–something EVERYONE on the Vegsource board had insisted was IMPOSSIBLE! For my body–especially because I was still growing–the protein in fruits and greens was simply not bioavailable enough, complete enough, or high-enough quality to supply my needs. This is why my body was burning muscle. There was no reliable source of all the essential amino acids for my body to use.

I immediately started on a B12 supplement and my parents virtually force-fed me cooked eggs and steamed vegetables. The only other alternative, they said, was going to get intravenous fluid at the hospital and get strapped down in a hospital bed. I was distraught and confused. Why was this happening? Was there a chance it WASN’T all detox? Could this diet have flaws? Where oh where was my Paradise Health? Despite my doubts, I still felt terrible knowing I was putting all these “toxic” cooked foods into my body. I thought there must be something wrong with me, because no other raw vegans are having problems like me.

Then something happened. A few weeks after I got my blood test results, someone named Rick posted something on Vegsource that questioned veganism. It was this post, actually: http://vegsource.com/talk/raw/messages/4158.html Suddenly, the board exploded into arguments. People stepped forward and revealed that they were not having Perfect Health, either, but instead were struggling terribly on the diet. A group of about 6 people plus myself actually formed our OWN discussion group on Yahoo (it has since gone inactive, but a year ago it was hopping). Just a private board where we could openly share our experiences, without worrying about having our posts censored or deleted, which happened quite often on the Vegsource board.

It turns out, we ALL had similar problems. One woman plus her family (including two kids) were struggling on the diet, feeling miserable. Three men had each been trying to get the diet to work for two or three years, and still did not feel healthy or good. A few people mentioned they had seen incredible improvement after adding a small amount of animal foods to their diet.

It was like a curtain had been lifted. I realized I wasn’t alone, and that all of us had fallen under some raw-vegan-dogma that kept us blind to the problems it caused. From that point on, I started doing REAL research on the raw diet–not just reading the testimonials that had been written after less than a month on the diet, not ignoring the “anti-raw vegan” articles that I had previously come across but dismissed without considering. I talked to a lot of people, I shattered a lot of my own beliefs. It was really quite amazing to know I had been such a “sheep,” following the flock, almost like I was in a cult.

I have spent the past year experimenting with my diet. I would like to go back to fish at some point, but right now I consume several raw eggs a day, plus fermented goat dairy, and sometimes steamed kale or chard (I can’t stand it raw). The color is back in my face, my hair is no longer falling out, I have put on a LOT of muscle, and I have constant energy again. I have learned a lot about the myths surrounding animal foods, and have come to believe that a small amount is necessary. For me, I tolerate goat dairy quite well, but other people don’t; it’s all very individual. I am just happy to have found something that restored my health.

Well, I’ve written you a book here, haven’t I? Hopefully you’re still awake! If you read all that, congratulations 🙂

If you have ANY other questions, please, please don’t hesitate to ask. I want to help in any way I can. I have lots of research accumulated, and lots of saved e-mails from people like myself. I can share anything you’re interested in hearing about.

Have a good night,


Jane Gardener

The following material is edited and excerpted from Dr. Douglas N. Graham’s upcoming book, “The 80/10/10 Diet.”

I first came in contact with Dr. Graham through the Internet on an online discussion board about raw and sports nutrition. My visit was due to my decision to eat raw again. I could see my health rapidly deteriorating before my eyes. Thank goodness I came across that discussion board and found out about Dr. Graham’s program. It has improved my life not only in ways I had hoped for, but also in ways I never imagined were even possible.

When I first started eating this low fat raw vegan way I used to have to get my son or hubby to carry the watermelons I got at market. Now I not only carry them myself with ease, I can even carry two of them at a time – and they’re each twice as big too!

I used to walk around with a water bottle with a shoulder strap so I’d always have water. Now I don’t even use it during the day but still drink water in the middle of the night and early morning. I drink water in the morning and after intense exercise but don’t find the need for it otherwise…

At first I was not willing or psychologically able to bring my fat down to 10% or less as recommended. I had been eating a very high fat diet all of my life, including when I ate raw/living foods the last time. I did bring it down to 10% overt fats (which was about 20% overall) as a transition. I still experienced tremendous health benefits even in this transition. The first thing that I noticed when switching from 20% or less of calories from fat to 10% or less was that I felt better. Then my body seemed to get down to deeper work on repairing my body. My legs felt suddenly lighter and stronger too – like I could jump really high easier and they wanted to, so I did. My husband was simultaneously amused and amazed.

My hair is just getting better and better looking – without shampoo! Wow! My skin and hair have never been smoother, silkier and more lovely than they are now. This raw stuff is amazing – not raw any way, but this low fat vegan way – that’s what’s making the difference! I just can’t begin to describe the difference. It’s far surpassed the condition it has ever been in as far back as I can remember. My never-ending acne has virtually stopped as well. People comment frequently now on how my skin ‘glows,’ how healthy I look and how pretty my hair is, wanting to touch it and do things with it. I haven’t had people wanting to do that with my hair since I was a very young child.

One of the best things I’ve experienced about eating this way is my newfound love of exercise. I feel so physically adventurous now – loads more than I was ever before. I’m not skydiving or bungee jumping or anything, but I do like to try new things in relation to exercise for the fun of it and/or just to see if I can. It’s so different than I had been the rest of my life, even when eating living foods a different time for a couple of years. I’m feeling more adventurous socially as well, so I’m more outgoing, less shy.

My skin is not tan yet, but is not pasty and doesn’t get sunburned as easily as it used to. I can stay out in the sun ten times longer than I used to be able to. I don’t need to desperately seek out the shade at the beach, or figure out which hat will stay on and give me adequate shade. I can actually take walks on the beach without all the cover-up gear AND out of the shade. I can go to the farmer’s market in the afternoon without a hat!

I went surfing for the first time ever last year. I did pretty darn well – especially for a thirty-eight year old mom who’s only ridden a skateboard a few times for a few feet, a boogie board only once with my hubby, and never been on a surf board before. I stood up and rode the very first wave! I was catching little waves on my own and riding after only forty-five minutes. Cool!

Until a while into following Dr. Graham’s program, I never, ever, ever was able to full-on push ups. I discovered I could do a full real push-up after eating this way for a while and worked on them to see how many I could do – got up to 23 in a row before I moved onto something else. I’ve now gone back to pushups, going airborne this time by quickly powering the pushing so that at the top of my full pushup my hands and toes hop off the ground while keeping my full body tight and straight! I’m up to 10 in a row right now. So fun!

I’d always been extremely prone to blisters all of my life, but discovered about six months ago (after following Dr. Graham’s program for a year and a half) that this has improved as well. I no longer have to wear band-aids on my heels and toes in my boots or tennis shoes. I used to have to wear three band-aids per foot for even light hiking for a short time or regular sedentary-ish daily activities. I do not understand it, but somehow something has changed and I hardly ever get blisters anymore. Bye-bye band-aids and tape!

In the last ten years I’ve had a tendency to get stys that were getting worse and worse each time. Sometimes they’d get clogged in my eyelid, causing big swellings and all so I could hardly open my eye until it resolved. Two years into Dr. Graham’s Method I still get pre-sty things now, but no longer get the actual stys anymore

I am immensely less prone to stress and emotional baggage issues, basically more even tempered. My emotions are more even and at a higher level than before. It’s kind of hard to describe, and I guess the best way is to say I’m at peace, more so than ever before. At peace with who I am, who everyone else is, what is going on in my life and around me, etc. I just plain feel good and it’s hard to get too down when you feel so darn good all the time, you know?

I, a petite 5’2” 98lb woman, find I am lifting about the same or more than the businessmen at the health club without an effort, then am more surprised to find that some days I can just keep adding more and more… seemingly to no end. I go with small increments, so on those days I usually end up getting tired via the number of reps. before the weight gets to be too much. There are big guys there lifting tons of weight in order to build more muscle and get more ‘cut’ and all… and then there’s little old me lifting relatively minute amounts of weight while my muscles just burst out all cut-looking, defined and stuff (with what muscle I have) while I’m doing it (and afterwards while I’m pumped). It makes me feel bad for them – if they only would do their exercises properly and do Dr. Graham’s program they’d get much better results for their time and efforts.

I don’t get so worn out at the end of the day anymore and sleep much more restfully. My overall stress level went down (I had been close to a nervous breakdown previous to going raw, having been in a high state of stress for several years). It is not my life that changed, it was me. I simply am not as stressed about things anymore, in fact have had even more stressful things in my life happen than before and felt less stressed during them. Before eating this way I was so stressed out and knew I needed to de-stress, but couldn’t see how, without things changing in my life’s situation. I couldn’t exercise or do other stress relievers ’cause it would just feel like I was getting further behind on things, which would stress me out more (counterproductive to say the least). Now my body tells me it wants to play and I follow and I’m not stressed. I feel great!

I actually find this diet easier than others. There isn’t as much food prep. – you can just grab the fruit and go, no need to slice, spread, arrange, layer, bag and all or cook, transfer, clean, transfer, clean, etc. like cooked. Only a salad bowl and compost containers to wash for the whole day – can do that with just water too if done right away. Of course, you can make the 80-10-10rv food fancy enough for any gourmet undertaking if you want, but you don’t have to go through all that every day just to eat.

The more I follow all of Dr. Graham’s recommendations, the easier it is stay on the 80/10/10 raw vegan program. I feel so much better and see so many results that I am inspired to keep going and don’t want to go back to cooked food or even high fat raw. It is not worth it. I have been gaining strength, power, agility, muscle, overall physical and mental abilities, peace of mind, as well as experiencing more energy, joy and overall well being eating this way than any other way I’ve tried.

Raw vegan the way Dr. Graham recommends (which incorporates other areas besides diet) is the optimum for human health as far as I’ve seen. From my experience, good health truly is happiness and peace of mind and once you’ve experienced it, the passing pleasures of non-optimum food don’t seem worth the risk of losing that. If you stick with Dr. Graham’s program long enough and do the rest of the health recommendations (exercise, rest, water, air, sleep, recreation, etc.) you’ll feel it too – then there’s no looking back! Just do it, you won’t regret it.

With every other diet change I’ve made and felt improvements on it was much more subtle than this. I’ve eaten variations of the standard American diet (SAD), SAD less red meat, lacto-ovo vegetarian, lacto-vegetarian, vegan, vegan macrobiotic, vegan natural hygiene, and even raw the living foods way and others. I felt improvements with each diet change in different ways, but no improvement I felt from them came close to what I’ve experienced with Dr. Graham’s low fat 80/10/10 diet. It’s worlds, no – universes, no – even more than that, different. I have experienced improvements in my health, abilities, attitude, and appearance that I never even imagined and it’s still going. It has been over two years so far and things are still getting better every day – amazing, absolutely amazing.

It’s hard to say how 80/10/10 has helped specifically, isolated from the other health improvements I’ve been able to make since I started Dr. Graham’s program. I can say in all certainty that this way of eating was a catalyst to other health improvements I’ve made in the meantime. There is no way I would have been able to do them otherwise. I know; I’ve tried. These other health improvements include: regular and varied exercise, increased quality of air, recreation and plain enjoying being alive, restful sleep, de-stressing, sunshine and more. Luckily I already had love and good water in my life, and they got better as well. I feel at peace with who I am, who everyone else is, what is going on in my life and around me. I have become less shy and more adventurous socially too.

Once I started on Dr. Graham’s program I started really liking my food again. It was yummy and I was looking forward to it and all. I wasn’t putting off my meals until I got ravenous anymore. I was no longer waiting ‘till I was so hungry I’d grab anything anymore. My depression lifted and was replaced with happiness and new energy. I felt and still feel like my body is celebrating life on a cellular level – it is happy to be alive and wants to move to celebrate. Happy happy, joy joy, happy happy, joy! Since I’ve been following Dr. Graham’s program for the first time in my life I have actually truly wanted to exercise. I found myself looking for excuses to move my body and exercise, which was very foreign to me indeed. I had always been one to find excuses to sit where I was and not exercise – never experienced looking forward to my free time in order to exercise before. As a result, I’m starting to look more athletic – people think now I’m a dancer or gymnast.

I discovered new abilities I hadn’t had before as well. My balance, coordination and dexterity have dramatically improved somehow, even at the beginning, before I had been active much at all. My strength and endurance were so much better than before. With aerobic exercise I had always been limited by my breathing capacity, in that I would lose my breath way before my muscles would get enough of a workout to work out my heart. Now, in retrospect and in comparison, it was like I had been running on dirty fuel. Suddenly, aerobic workouts felt so ‘clean’ and ‘crisp’ – I felt like I could go forever (but my heart wasn’t used to it, so I took it gradually). I could breathe really deeply and not have that sick and dirty feeling at the beginning. It was and still is great! Now when I’m exercising I feel happy and my body feels happy, which makes me happier, in a cyclical way. I love it. I’ve never felt like that before.

I’m no athlete, but have become more athletic. I’m no body builder, but my body’s been building itself quite nicely. I have been gaining strength, endurance, etc. as well as muscle and weight eating this way – once I got rid of most of my excess fat, that is. I initially only lost weight because I had excess fat, now I’m gaining muscle and weight along with it. I can actually feel my muscles growing during my ‘off’ time and I don’t get the sore muscle thing if I eat the fruit afterwards like Dr. Graham suggests. My muscles are not only stronger and more capable, but also bigger, more defined and ‘cut.’

Three years ago I was diagnosed with an autoimmune condition called antiphospholipid antibody syndrome that tends to clot the blood (and has many other symptoms). I had at least four miscarriages and a host of other health problems before it was diagnosed. I spent some time following my MD’s suggestions (aspirin), then my chiropractor’s suggestions (fish oil), and a mix of the two, but it was just getting worse. When I switched to Dr. Graham’s Program I decided to stop taking the fish oil, flax seed oil, and aspirin I had been alternating between and overlapping. I started working on eating the 80/10/10 raw vegan way in June of 2002 and was able to do all of it diet-wise fairly fast –keeping my overt fat intake down to 10% or less calorically, which isn’t quite 80/10/10. It allowed me to get things going well enough to experience fantastic results and inspire me to keep going. I had been such a high fat eater all of my life that I don’t think I could have done 80/10/10 without this intermediate step. Even with this higher fat low fat way I had enormous improvements – way beyond any other way I’d eaten (including other ways of raw or living foods). I now am doing 80/10/10 fully, have been taking no supplements or medications of any kind since the beginning and feel great! All of my symptoms have improved and in some cases, disappeared! I am WONDERFULLY PLEASED with the results!

In college I became a vegetarian, and eventually a vegan. I tried various ways of vegetarianism and veganism. At the age of twenty-three, I gave birth to my son on a cooked vegan diet and raised him on that for many years. I discovered natural hygiene and living foods when he was a toddler and worked towards eating a vegan raw/living foods diet. When my son was about seven years old I had been following the living foods diet for about a year and we decided to birth another child. Unfortunately, I had a miscarriage instead. Some people, including my midwife blamed my diet and lack of protein, although my MD, upon seeing my diet, did not think it was diet related. I, however, was unsure as I had my son while just vegan (including cooked) so decided to temporarily go back to cooked vegan in order to have a child. Too bad I didn’t know Dr. Graham then, I could have saved a lot of time and heartache. Going back to vegan with cooked, of course, did not work and I ended up having another miscarriage a year later. I decided to add in dairy and eggs and had another miscarriage the year after that. During that third miscarriage (which lasted a while) I tried adding in poultry and fish and stayed on that diet to try again. Years later, at the age of 36, that I became pregnant again – unexpectedly. It wasn’t until this fourth confirmed miscarriage that additional blood work led to a diagnosis of antiphospholipid antibody syndrome. This autoimmune condition literally means that you have antibodies that are attacking your own phosphorus fats. Symptoms are mostly related to a tendency of the blood to clot and/or bleed excessively and include heart attack, stroke, clots in extremities, easily bruised skin, easily sunburned, etc. as well as miscarriages.

After following Dr. Graham’s low fat raw vegan method, including the reduced fat which I feel is key, I have felt and seen a reduction in my visible symptoms of the autoimmune condition and feel fairly certain that the high fat diet before it made me look fat caused this autoimmune condition and/or greatly contributed to it. I don’t know if it’s all gone yet, but I definitely know it isn’t getting worse (as it was when following the instructions of my MD and chiropractor). I do plan to go in and get my blood tested when I can for the numerical proof, however I don’t really think I need it anymore. I am fairly convinced that it is gone, or lowered to such a degree that it is not a problem anymore. I no longer bruise mysteriously and easily with the littlest of bumps or pressure – in fact, it’s hard to get a bruise these days even if I have some pretty major thing happen. Lesser things gave me major hematomas before. My ‘condition’ tends to make the blood clot more readily, which was affecting my periods (as well as causing miscarriages). I no longer get the clots with my menstruation, nor the weird hormonal ‘off’ feelings I’d get from around ovulation through my menstruation. I also don’t get the ‘restless leg syndrome’ at night or that pain in my legs’ veins/arteries like a clot was forming. I used to get sunburned almost in minutes, at times even in the shade, whereas now I can be out for hours without a burn.

Finally, at the age of thirty eight after following Dr. Graham’s method, I became free of the acne that I’ve had ever since puberty. My skin, hair, teeth, nails, etc. have never looked, felt and smelled better too! Amazing because while I bathe and brush my teeth daily, I haven’t used shampoo, conditioner, toothpaste, deodorant, face soap or body soap for over nine months now – and they just keep getting better and better all the time! Funny – just some scrubbing and water. Who’d have thought? The more I do this the more the Natural Hygiene label makes sense. I am back to the clothing sizes I wore once I reached my adult height at the age of thirteen, yet am firmer and stronger than I was then. The stretch marks from the pregnancy of my now 16 year old son have become firmer and less saggy – even when on my hands and knees.

Life is so much easier, efficient and more simple than ever. Not only do I have greater peace of mind, increased physical abilities, increased energy, greater health and happiness, but my personal needs are so much simpler and easier to meet than before. I have more time and resources to spend on other things. My life is very full of activities and responsibilities, so it really helps.

I have no need for pots, pans, stove or other cooking appliances and accessories; spices; dish soap; vitamin or mineral supplements, herbs, medications, etc. as well as makeup, bug repellant, lotion, deodorant, sun screen, face soap, body soap, toothpaste, shampoo or conditioner. In fact, I could get away without any food preparation utensils or dishes at all if I wanted to. It is much easier to go places for the day, or even a few days. I have less stuff to take with me. I only use a sun hat if I out in the full sun all day. I no longer need to take a water bottle everywhere, reserving it for when I wake and during workouts. I have less trash, but more compost which I can use to grow more food with. My body regulates its temperature better so I don’t need to take as many clothing options with me when going somewhere.

Since starting on Dr. Graham’s program I started homeschooling my gifted and dyslexic son with self-created custom curricula, started two corporations with my hubby, organized a local branch of our church, was ordained as one of the clergy and counseled members our congregation as needed. I am still doing that now and am also writing two books, working on building up my fitness level, still do occasional work for long-standing clients from my old consultancy, and of course continue to maintain a terrific and loving relationship with both my hubby and son.

I have found this way of eating is much, much, much easier, efficient and quicker overall than any other I’ve ever done. I know there is no way that I could have done all that I have done and am doing if I were still eating any other way. All I have to do is put my fruit for the day in a box, and maybe grab some salad and tomatoes if I don’t have enough at work already, and go. If I don’t have enough with me or get caught out at mealtime I can go into practically any grocery store and get fruit. No more shakiness, spaciness and low blood sugar if I have to skip or delay a meal, instead I feel fine and still perform well mentally and physically until I refuel.

If you’re looking to save time and effort in finding what works – you truly need to look no further. Dr. Graham’s method works. I’m saying this not as a devotee or loyal subject, etc., but as one who’s tried everything else (but wouldn’t have bothered if I’d found this to begin with) and the other methods just didn’t do it. Don’t think about “Living a Little,” “Live a Lot” instead! I used to live a little from passing pleasures, sacrificing my health and well being in the process, and now I am living a lot from my lasting joy from health. I don’t feel badly about my choice or that I’m giving up anything. I’m choosing better health and more lasting pleasure and am all the more happy as a result. You can too – just do it.

I just want to tell the world – it’s so simple and it works so well! But it’d be hard to believe unless you witness or experience it yourself. Some of the changes I’ve experienced are hard to believe myself – and I’m experiencing them! Amazing, simply amazing. I highly recommend that you read and re-read this book as much as possible until you are able to try this method out and find out for yourself. Give it a good chance though, and follow everything as much as possible, you won’t be sorry.

To sum it all up – I just feel so ALIVE! It’s better than any other way I’ve ever eaten (and I’ve eaten many different ways, including other ways of doing raw foods). I know that Dr. D. will say (and often does) that the food is only one element of health – and the others are important too. I agree, yet I think that it may be slightly more important, at least for me… by changing my diet this way it has brought about changes in me that have allowed me to change the other things as well. I don’t believe I could have gotten there from any other path – it would not have worked. Exercising and sunbathing would not have done the same, nor have gotten me to eat this way or have reduced my stress like this. I know. I tried that. Changing my eating to this way did change the other things though. Maybe it’s different for different people – maybe their ‘key’ to getting on a better health cycle is one of the other elements. Mine was definitely the food though and I am immensely grateful.

When I first read about Dr. Graham’s Method it made total sense to me and had the ‘ring’ of truth. I, admittedly, tend to lean towards Natural Hygiene and Dr. Graham’s recommendations are about the simplest and most efficient way of following Natural Hygiene I’ve found. I’ve been eating 100% raw this, low fat raw vegan 80/10/10 way for two years now and have had tremendous results – universes of improvement, health, energy and vitality over any other way I’ve tried. I’ll continue on with this 80-10-10rv method – it’s easy to eat this way for me and I really, really enjoy food and life so much more now. Thanks Dr. Graham!

-Janie Gardener

July, 2004

Janie has a website, www.ringlet.org, which documents her first six months of following Dr. Graham’s program and includes a photo history of her as well. She is currently writing two 80-10-10 raw vegan related books: Ready for Raw and A Fruit Lover’s Guide to Edible Fruit, due out in Spring 2005.

December 24, 2006

Hello rhio,
I just read some of the info on your website…
I am doing 80/10/10 and thriving. Just thought I’d let you know in case you wanted a testimonial.
Shall I presume that you are thriving? Would you consider yourself to be at an ideal weight? I ask because you appear to be a bit overfat. I could be wrong of course. Sometimes difficult to tell from pictures.
What percent fruit do you eat?


Dear Gary:

While I have been overfat in my history, I do not believe that I am now, at size 4. Perhaps some would like me to be a size 2 or 0 but my size suits me.

As you know, I am not an advocate for 80/10/10, though I do believe that in the beginning it can be a terrific transition and cleansing diet, but in my opinion, it is not for the long term. However, if you have made it work for you, then what objection could I have? If you read my hotline from the beginning of the discussion, then you would know that my main objection was the removal of letters from a website Doug G moderated, letters which voiced opposing views and experiences on 80/10/10.

With blessings and peace,


Below is an exchange of information, ideas and opinion:

Rhio: Tell me a little about how you are thriving. How long have you been doing 80/10/10? Did you have personal instruction from Dr. D?

Gary: Hello Rhio,
Thanks much for the quick reply and happy holidays to you.
Thanks for the information on the Andressohns – I did not know all that you have discovered, and it was very interesting.

I don’t call what I do 80/10/10, but it is equivalent from when I tracked it online for a month in nutridiary. It’s been a long transition from Fit for Life 20 years ago, until the present. I would say I have been eating high raw for 20 years (90%), and like 811 for about 6 years, not 100% raw all the time, but very close on average, and all raw and fresh at this time.

By the way I do not consider that cheating, or failing. I am succeeding splendidly, and I love my diet. I say that because someone I know said to me, so you cheat, yes? Well, if you want to consider 99% raw and fresh and whole foods “cheating”, then ok, But it seems a very negative way to look at it.

Nor do I consider that since I been on average 99% raw over the last 6 years, that it invalidates anything about the raw diet, or my particular diet. My ideal is simply a challenging goal, more so than the typical RAW diet goal of many who eat a lot of dried foods, and juices and frozen food, raw meals, high fat, a lot of nuts, nut butters, dehydrated foods, spices etc. Nothing self congratulatory about this, just an observation.

No personal instruction from doug other than public – on the discussion board.

Rhio: If someone thinks you’re “cheating” because of your 90-99% raw food diet, (as opposed to 100%), I believe that is a result of faulty perception and reasoning and also unnecessary judgement. After all, we each have the right to choose the diet of our choice, and the level at which we want to implement it – and it really is no one else’s business.  

What kind of diet were you doing before?

Gary: Long transition as I said, from meat eater, to vegetarian, to vegan to raw vegan.

Rhio: Has the 80/10/10 diet affected your teeth in anyway – for better or worse?

Gary: My teeth were never good and I have not seen any worsening due to diet.

Rhio: How is your disposition and nerves? Are you calm?

Gary: Much more calm while eating this way. No comparison.

Rhio: What improvements have you seen in your health?

Gary: The list is too long. Suffice to say that from fatigue, headache, stomach and back pain, carpal tunnel, nervousness, weakness, bad skin, Have all gone away. That is just a short list but parallels what most raw people see.

Rhio: What do you eat?

Gary: Mostly lowfat fruit, with what I would consider a lot of greens and celery. A few nuts. I shoot for raw fresh ripe whole organic plants, as the mantra goes. I feel that many people think that RAW will lead to HEALTH, when that is far from the case. Far more important are the words FRESH and WHOLE, although I blend some.

Rhio: How much exercise do you get?

Gary: Mostly a lot of weightlifting. Some other sports and exercise – not a lot of aerobic type stuff.

Rhio: Do you live in a warm climate?

Gary: Yes.

Rhio: If you have been doing 80/10/10 long term, have you had any type of testing for vitamin/mineral status?

Gary: I did have full testing at one point years ago and all was fine. Then I self-tested b12 and it was borderline low and I supplemented for a short time. I don’t normally supplement with anything, except for the rare occasion I’ll get a bottle of methylcobalamin.

Rhio: If you decide to share, I will post your response in one of my newsletters, so please give permission also.

Gary: You could share this in your newsletter if you wish, under the following two conditions:
1. that you answer my questions herein about your diet.
 2. that you send me exactly what you will be posting, including your response, prior to posting it.


I will answer your questions to me BUT I want your permission now to use all that you have written to me, including the section that begins: “I had also wanted to mention to you the following:” and ends with: “and recognized that most of the problems were her misunderstandings and misapplications.”
If you want to respond to my answers, you can and that will be posted too. However, I do not want to invest more time with the conversation if your permission is contingent on whether or not you approve of my replies. I try to be honest, open and spontaneous. I am busy and I want our conversation if it continues to be a part of one of my hotlines. 

Let me know.

With blessings and peace,


December 27, 2006

I hereby grant permission.


Gary: My questions for you are – how much fruit you eat, and what is the rest of your diet.

Rhio: I do not eat any specific amount of fruit. I kind of go by what my body is asking me for at the moment. In the summer, I eat much more fruit than at any other time of the year. If I have sweet fruit, it is usually in the morning after my pint of raw juice or energy soup. Or sometimes in between meals as a snack, though I don’t really snack much. Sometimes I’ll have fruit or a fruit salad for either lunch or dinner. The rest of my diet consists of a very wide variety of vegetables (some of these veggies, like cucumbers and tomatoes are classified as fruits), leafy vegetables, wild edibles, soaked and sprouted nuts, seeds, legumes and sometimes grains like quinoa or buckwheat. These are made into mostly very simple meals, although I do have what some call gourmet meals as well, usually on the weekend when I have more time for preparation.

Gary: how you believe your style of eating is better than 811?

Rhio: My diet differs from 811 in that while it is fruit and vegetable based, it includes a lot more categories of foods. For example:
common root vegetables, (carrots, beets, turnips, etc.) unusual root vegetables (burdock, celery root, maca, etc.), 
fermented foods
, wheatgrass juice
, other fresh juice, 
nut and seed cheese and yogurt
, wild vegetables, 
sea vegetables
, fresh herbs and spices,
, occasional mushrooms, and sprouted grains, 
whole food based, low-heat processed supplements (two weeks on – two weeks off)

. I believe eating a WIDE variety of raw foods is safer than only eating mostly fruits. The fruitarians and 80/10/10ers that I have met that were eating some leafy greens did not eat nearly enough of them compared with the fruits they were consuming, mainly because they did not enjoy them and refused to put any type of dressing or sauce on them. In any case, they were focusing on the fruits and not on the greens.

I have also had many former fruitarians thank me for alerting them to the possible problems. Some of them had already started having trouble with their teeth.

Most fruits are low in sodium, a most important mineral for health and youthfulness. Eating celery with sweet fruit doesn’t in my opinion, balance out the minerals. And too many sweet fruits, as Dr. Fred Bisci says, keep the body pumped with insulin eventually leading to insulin failure.

My only concern, as I’ve stated numerous times before, is that there is sufficient transparency when things do not go as stated by a raw food teacher promoting a fruitarian or 80/10/10 approach.

Gary: I had also wanted to mention to you the following:
You replied about the fact that you were a size 4. like I said, you just looked a bit overfat or puffy, but pictures can lie. And someone’s “size” does not necessarily indicate “health”, since many people are bloated and puffy from salt and other spices as you know.

Likewise, many would say I am too thin at 5’7” 120.
I think it is good that you are concerned about supposed failures on certain diets and want people to know about it. I know you think it’s improper to blame all “failures” on the person doing it wrong, and I won’t say that is true for all cases, but I would say for the vast majority that I have communicated with, their failure was either caused by doing it wrong, or by not seeing it through. By not seeing it through, I mean that 811 is a very big transition, bigger than most raw variants, and the transition can be challenging. Likewise, the transition may take longer than we think it should. By doing it wrong I mean not enough veggies, or eating non-organically grown food, or eating other non optimal foods. I do not think, as some do, that one will fail on 811 without a certain Amount of exercise.
my point is that minor mistakes or indiscretions are amplified when eating such a clean diet – this does not invalidate the diet.
Believe me, I have the same concerns that you do when you hear of people not doing well, while seemingly doing everything right. I just wanted you to consider that you may be being a bit biased. 

Do you know anyone, for example, who is failing on the diet that you espouse? Would you say that 100% of the people that eat as you do are successful? Define successful? I would doubt that all can claim smooth sailing. Do you think it would be fair to then claim that your diet is dangerous and flawed?

Rhio: First, the significant thing here for me is only transparency, so if someone sent me a letter and told me that a very varied raw diet was not working for them, I would post the letter, and not remove it. I may respond to it, ask a few questions, but it would stay.
No one as of yet, has written any letters of that type to me.

You ask if I think the way I eat will keep people healthy. The way I eat keeps ME healthy. Each person is an individual and raw diets have to be tailored to the needs and lifestyles of each individual.

You ask me to define successful. Successful for ME Rhio, is – I don’t have any pain or inflammation in any part of my body. I feel great all of the time and joyful most of the time – I have loads of energy – my digestion is excellent – I never get colds or flu. My skin is smooth and I have very few wrinkles. I don’t wear glasses and have no need for them. I have all my hair. I have no cavities in my teeth now. The only time I was ever not feeling myself since 1987 was for the first two years after 9/11 while I was detoxing from all the heavy metals and other crap that I absorbed from the buildings collapsing, since I live 10 blocks north of the former World Trade Center.

Gary: I would also mention that people “fail” in many ways, with diet being a causative factor. Many of these failures are not recognized, but hidden. Just as many SAD eaters are apparently healthy, ie: not failing, but we know they are really failing, or their failure is certainly coming soon.

Rhio: I agree with you that people may not succeed on raw diets for many and varied reasons. Since I am not a practitioner, in my teaching I only go into maintaining or regaining health in broad terms. If people are not making the diet work, it would be most helpful if they could find a competent practitioner to guide and assist them.

Gary: Final NOTE: the young woman who was prominently featured on your site as A FAILURE due to the 811 plan posted a few months ago on the vegsource board. She then said that she cringes when she reads what she wrote as a young lady back then, and recognized that most of the problems were her misunderstandings and misapplications.

Rhio: About the young lady that you said has since recanted. She could write me again and I would then add the new information to her former letter, however I would have to be absolutely certain that it was the same young lady, and I’m not sure how I could be certain of that, unless she had the same email address.
If you have anything to add, please get back to me asap. If you don’t, then I will add whatever further comments you make into my website’s hotline, but it would not go into the hotline sent to the elist, as I’m planning to send my new hotline out within the next few days.

On Jan 2, 2007, at 7:58 PM, GARY ORLANDO wrote:

Hello Rhio,
Thank you for your response and for the answers to my questions. We are both on our own path and I’m happy that we are both doing well. I do not have any further comments at this time, and I wish you the best.

Dear Gary,

Thank you for your participation in this discussion. Have a Glorious New Year!


From: “Justin Lelia” <foodnhealing@hotmail.com>

Date: June 7, 2006 10:02:57 PM EDT
To: Rhotline@rawfoodinfo.com
Subject: 80/10/10 Success.

Dear Rhio,

We have met once. I attended an event of yours at High Vibe in 2002. I know we would be friendly if we met again. I commend you for the work you do. People like you help me to find the appropriate help. Yet, I need to respond to something I read on your site.

I noticed that you published stories by people who supposedly ate a raw diet similar to mine. I read how they experienced poor results and blamed the diet as the cause, if I’m not mistaken. I’ve invested thousands of dollars and countless hours to learn Dr. Doug Graham’s diet, and during my rehabilitation there were many times I would still consider myself sick, at one point looking emaciated. But I stuck with the program to the best of my ability, and my health continued to grow, presently being the best it has ever been. I thank my Father for all the financial support he gave me until I could gain the strength to support myself. Dr. Graham has been like a father to me as well.

Doug and I are very proud of 80/10/10 because although eating raw vegan is a healthier choice, eating a low fat and protein diet, high in carbohydrates is remarkable. Some people agree with our eating program although they are incredibly ill. It’s imperative that they attend events, study hygienic literature, and spend ample time with experienced hygienists. Often though, this doesn’t happen, and not expecting it to take years to rehabilitate, the sick inevitably get frustrated. In order to protect their egos they must blame someone or something for what they deem as a failure. Dr. Graham and 8/1/1 are an easy target. By blaming the “arrow and not the Indian,” they mislead others. They might consider making a bigger investment in their health instead of sending out negative publicity.

I’ve invested a fortune on books, events, consultations, travel etc. to learn how to eat better and heal from illness, and I understand that many people will not pay the price I have. Furthermore, my friendship and apprenticeship, if you will, with Doug has benefited me in ways that we often overlook when considering health and healing, and I can only guess why I fell into a position of studying him like a scientist. He’s successful and teaches the ideal. Why more people don’t follow him like I have boggles my mind. He never guaranteed 8/1/1 would work for me. He simply encouraged me to enjoy it, and that has made a big difference in my health. Bless Dr. Graham and 8/1/1, marvels of modern science and ethics.

Dear Justin,

You sent me your letter above to share with my readers and I would like to do that for my next hotline, but I’d also like to ask you a few questions.

I don’t think there is any reason that we should be anything other than friendly, even if we don’t agree on 80/10/10.

I appreciate that you seem to have found a system for healthy living that works for you. However, I do take issue with your conclusion that those who have suffered negative consequences with the very same system want, in your words, “to protect their egos they must blame someone or something for what they deem as a failure. Dr. Graham and 8/1/1 are an easy target. By blaming the ‘arrow and not the Indian,’ they mislead others. They might consider making a bigger investment in their health instead of sending out negative publicity.”

This conclusion of yours is incorrect in my view. Most of the people who have written about their experiences with 80/10/10 have done so with no end (or desire) of seeking “publicity” negative or otherwise. They have simply shared information, in the very same way that you are sharing information in your letter to me. All of the words you use in the space of 4 sentences, like “blame”, “negative publicity”, “easy target”, “egos”, “mislead others”, do not even belong in the discussion and are beside the point.

You obviously have a deep friendship with Doug and that is wonderful.

My questions are below with Justin’s answers. (Some questions or sentences are necessarily repeated for clarity)

Justin: Thanks for your contact Rhio and for following up on this project. I’ve responded to some of your questions and statements as you will find below.

Rhio: Most of the people who have written about their experiences with 80/10/10 have done so with no end (or desire) of seeking “publicity” negative or otherwise.

Justin: I agree. I do not think the people who have posted have anything personally against Dr. Graham. I just think they haven’t given the program justice. It is possible, and often the case IMO (in my opinion), that people do not take enough personal responsibility for their health challenges, or do not put the dedication into succeeding on the program I have. I am not impressed by the so called health successes that the people write of. I think they are still relatively sick, and they are excited about something else now, a new fad or idea, and they are convinced that they are now healthy because of it. People are affected by the “magic bullet” syndrome more than we know, IMO.

Rhio: Interested parties can read through the letters (in Parts 1, 2 & 3) and reach their own conclusions as to whether the writer’s gave 80/10/10 due “justice”.

Later Justin expanded his answer: I agree. When I originally wrote to you, I had no intention of accusing anyone of seeking publicity. I was voicing a concern though. I was concerned that people might get the impression that 80/10/10 is dangerous or of no value from some of your readers’ letters. It has taken me many years of practice and tons of support to regain my health using the 80/10/10 hygienic system, and I know the tenacity it takes to heal. It is in my honest opinion that many people give up the fundamental concepts of 80/10/10 after months, and or years of doing their best because they are frustrated with the challenges of rehabilitation.

Many people stay relatively sick despite knowing of and claiming that they are practicing 80/10/10 well. When and if 80/10/10 doesn’t give someone the results they had hoped for, they sometimes decide to move on to another diet and other healing concepts.

Often, people exaggerate the health benefits of their new found healing system or diet, convinced that they are NOW healthy after a certain period of practice. Then, they claim that 80/10/10 was of no value or hurt them, but I ask you dear reader to consider the possibility that maybe these people hurt themselves with the habits they brought to 80/10/10; the habits developed during the years of poor eating habits and lack of health education. And then I ask you to question the level of rehabilitation people claim they have experienced after changing their program.

Justin (repeated from 1st letter above): In order to protect their egos they must blame someone or something for what they deem as a failure. Dr. Graham and 8/1/1 are an easy target. By blaming the “arrow and not the Indian,” they mislead others. They might consider making a bigger investment in their health instead of sending out negative publicity.

Rhio: All of the words you use in the space of 4 sentences, like “blame”, “negative publicity”, “easy target”, “egos”, “mislead others”, do not even belong in the discussion and are beside the point.

Justin: It is a fascinating concept though, IMO. Feel free to cut it out of my statement, if you feel uncomfortable including those words in your project.

Rhio: What’s fascinating about it? I don’t feel uncomfortable because I didn’t write it. Only trying to point out to you that you are throwing aspersions on the writers instead of addressing their issues.

Justin: Coping mechanisms. Protecting ourselves our egos from the guilt or shame of giving up is what’s fascinating to me. Maybe I am being judgmental Rhio, but I do not have the time at the moment to address these peoples issues. I do wish them all the best with their rehabilitation.

Rhio: Do you want your email address in the post?

Justin: Please.

Rhio: Do you eat anything other than fruits? Any sprouts? Any greens? Any sprouted legumes? Any other categories of food? Any juice? Any blended foods?

Justin: Yes, to all of the above. I eat more than a couple of pounds of greens each week. I rarely eat sprouts or sprouted legumes. I blend water with bananas and dates sometimes, or fresh bananas with frozen bananas and water. I blend certain fruits and veggies together and use this blended food as a dressing over my salad vegetables, or even to eat as raw soup on certain occasions.

Rhio: Approx. 2 lbs of greens per week as contrasted with how many lbs. of fruit and how many lbs. of vegetables? Just to give people an idea…

Rhio: Later, in a phone conversation, Justin said to me that he didn’t feel this was a fair question. I asked him what’s not fair about it. He said, let’s call someone up and find out how many lbs. of different types of foods they eat, they probably wouldn’t know. I have to agree that Justin has a point here. But I was still trying to get an idea for my readers of the balances of each type of food. Justin amended his greens intake to 5 lbs. per week, but he wasn’t really sure, he never weighed it. So Justin gave me a quote “I don’t know how many lbs. of fruit I eat in a week, but I do know that I eat a lot more lbs. of fruit than I do of either greens or vegetables.

Rhio: How much and what kind of fat do you have daily?

Justin: I eat the fats contained in fruits and vegetables daily. I limit my intake of “overt fats” like coconut, avocado, nuts and seeds (foods that contain a higher amount of fat per total calories of the particular food in question). I do not eat overt fats everyday. I try and keep my total fat consumption under 10% of my total calories, and I am confident that I achieve this by following the guidelines outlined in Dr. Graham’s newest book.

Rhio: Do you drink any water or just rely on the fruits for water?

Justin: I do drink water, but I have gone for weeks without drinking it, getting all the water I need from eating fruits and veggies.

Rhio: Have you had any problems with your teeth?

Justin: The first few years of practicing 80/10/10, my teeth occassionally hurt, but I’m sure it was because my habits and health were poor. They hurt because I ate when I wasn’t hungry or overate. They hurt because I was still eating cooked foods on occassion, or I didn’t get enough rest. I haven’t had any teeth problems for over a year now.

Rhio: How much exercise do you get daily?

Justin: My guess is that I average an hour a day. I also perform some fairly intense labor on the weekend.

Rhio: Do you live in a warm climate?

Justin: Miami.

Thank you. Keep up the good work.


Justin Lelia


Jan. 17, 2006

Excellent investigative work, Rhio. Dr. Graham’s work is NOT all 100% correct.


February 14, 2006


I’d just like to comment on something I see a lot in posts re: allergies to wheat, dairy, and soy; and if you could post this on your hotline it would help people to better understand the human diet.

It is impossible for humans to have an allergy to wheat, dairy products, or soy. Here’s why: If you ate soap, and you had a bad reaction to it, would you conclude that you are allergic to soap? Of course not, but why not? Because you know that soap is not part of the human diet. So if you eat something that a human being is not designed to eat, and you have a bad reaction to it, this doesn’t mean you are allergic to it. But society (business) is happy to treat a bad reaction to dairy as an allergy/malady to which they will provide you with a remedy (Dairy-Ease). The reality is, if you consume dairy, wheat, or soy, and you react badly, that’s NORMAL! Be glad your body is vital enough to mount such a reaction. It’s those who don’t manifest noticeable symptoms to unnatural foods that I feel bad for.

Don Bennett

Director – Health 101 Institute
Thought-provoking insights
regarding the realities of human health

Dear Don,

Thank you for your comments. I have posted them.

My view differs from yours, however, so I am going to post that as well.

I believe that wheat and soy are food products that could have some value in the human food chain if they were not so extensively hybridized… and now a high percentage of the soy crop is also genetically engineered. Hybridization (and in the case of soy, GE) has changed their composition. In addition, these two items are extensively used in products so that the population at large overeats them to the exclusion of more important items, such as fresh fruits and vegetables.

Soy products as traditionally used in Asian countries are usually eaten in a fermented form, such as tempeh, miso, natto, onchom, koji, sufu, etc., which their traditions have taught them, make them more nourishing and digestible. They also consume them in the form of soy sprouts.

There is a difference of opinion in the raw movement as regards fermented products. I fall into the group, such as the Ann Wigmore Institute, that finds them to be of significant value.

Dairy, I can agree with you is not a food for humans, but for calves which turn into 1000-1500 lb. cows. However, even with dairy, if the cow is allowed to graze on grass and the milk products are raw, then there could be some nourishment derived from them.

However, I do feel that nut milks made from different soaked nuts and seeds (which Nature so freely provides) is the better choice, both from a food nourishment and safety standpoint, from an ecological standpoint, and also one of humanity and compassion shown towards animals.



January 11, 2007

Elaine at www.doctorsaredangerous.com is available for radio interview. At age 78, she’s a stunning example.
Ronald Bradley

The price of health freedom – indeed, the price of all freedom – is eternal vigilance.

January 11, 2007

Dear Rhio,


Thank you so much for this DAZZLING NEWSLETTER! I always love reading THE CAB RIDE! It is so profoundly inspiring!

Wishing you a brilliant day Rhio!!!

Always with LUV and more LUV,


January 11, 2007

Hi Rhio,

You know this February I will be 61. IT’s hard for most people to believe. I’m even sometmes amazed myself. I started being interested in nutrition when I was 24. By the time I was 28 I had my own radio show…first locally in the tri state area then nationaly for five years and finally globally for a couple of years. I have met and counselled many people on nutrition and learned from many others from all over the world. I have found meat eaters who were exceptionally enlightened and quite healthy and many more than I have vegetarians or raw foodists for that matter.

While in Russia I met a raw foodist who is a Yogi…a real Yogi…mostly fruitarian….eats very little else…He is a genius….can hold his breath for 30 minutes and has invented a healing game from ancent sanskrit that after you play it, it changes your real life…………He is an exceptioal healer beyond any I ever met anywhere………..However I did his blood last year and it was a mess. Every damn disease causing microorganism that exits………He has a strong constitiution so he can bear it…for now. He looks older than either myself or husband… My blood and my husband’s are much better than his….we sleep less…and get far less angry and have more stamina. I can still run 3 miles without a problem. I have yet to meet anyone who has the upper body strength my husband has..

I have seen several fruitarians over the years and everyone of them had bacteria infested blood………(our natrally occurring microbes within us proliferate on sugar)…. That’s why you’ve seen their teeth go bad…. so is every facet of their body going equally bad it’s just a matter of time……Sugar is sugar is sugar….from fruit, honey, maple syrup, stevia, or the so called unpocessed (really processed) healthy, really not, Agave……………..

I will do anyone’s blood for free who is a fruitarian. It is an unhealthy diet………Anyone who says it is…please come and show us your blood and I will prove to you, it is not…………If I’m wrong I will pay you for coming.

As an addendum I have seem many many raw foodists over the years………Several very.. famous ones….and not one of them has healthy blood. and many look terrible and feel worse……..They all think they have the answer and they don’t…..and the only person I’ve seem who has the closest to the answer is Robert Young who wrote the PH Miracle and he eats alot of raw but not all for sure…. Gabriel Cousens changed his diet percenages based on Dr. Young’s book…and cut his intake of fruit………

Raw foodists eat too much fruit, dehydrated food…which is totally unatural and too much sprouted grains which are fungal and mircrobial breeding farms….Dehyrated food that was dried in the sun (which kills fungus and mold) and food dried in the dehydrator are totally different things. A dehydrator is the perfect place to grow fungus and mold…dark, warm and put some wet grain in their and its more alive than you care to know……..If anyone doesn’t think this is true come and visit and give us your blood… we’ll show you happily……….

We have to take into consideration where someone lives, how old they are and what their constitution is……….How strong were their parents and how long did they live?…Where did they grow up….If you grew up in the mts…thats one thing…but if you grew up near a toxic waste dump that another…Did your mother beat you every day or love you………Opinions are worth little…everyone has one………The only person who can tell iif your diet is working for you is a good clinician…………How you feel right now is irrelevant…You could have a good sized tumor in you and not know it…I’ve seem plenty of people with pretty advanced cancer who didn’t know it, felt great, and were dead shortly after……….

By the way, I have also met a large number of raw foodists who are mentally imbalanced seriously because they don’t get enough amino acids to make Seretonin, Dopamine and endorphins, or get enought B12………….Just because you eat raw, you won’t always be healthy…….Wait until you reach 40 50 and 60 and see what happens………….then……Everyone should have a good biochemist or good clinician check their nuttional levels and a good practioner of Biological Medicine….someone who studied in Germany and not here…..if they want to find out if they’re doing it right, and won’t have problems down the line……….It would be a good start if everyone would folow the anciet wisdom of “Don’t believe anything you hear and half of what you see,”….That’s my opinion.


Mary Houston

PS I must say that I was one of those feeling great and strong people who discovered I had a nice sized tumor growing inside of me….Fortunately Dr. Young did my blood sixteen years ago and reversed my certain demise at the time.

March 1, 2007

Hi Rhio,

I have had your book for years, but as with many books I purchase, haven’t spent time with it since then. I was re-introduced to you by reading Dr. Doug Graham’s discussion board archives. After becoming dis-enchanted by the 811 approach, I went to your site and began to read the letters addressing the 811 way of eating. I was much impressed by your response to the man (Hal?) you had several correspondence’s with, and just very impressed with your openness and acceptance about how a person chooses to live, and eat. It is what I am coming to in my life.

Reading your experience of picking up the toxicity of 9-11, I wanted to share with you, if you are interested, a product I am using that is the most amazing detox/chelation product known—and it’s totally benign. I have had fungus on the top of my big toes for years—tried many things including, eating raw, melaleuca oil (tea tree) and supplements—-and it never went away. Until this week!I used the product for 4 days, and noticed one night that my toes were completely smooth and soft. I can only imagine how it is taking things out from the inside! Anyway, wanted to let you know.

Thank you again, for your wisdom.

Warm regards,

Nan Walker

Dear Nan,

Thank you for letting me know that my book and site have meant something to you. Much appreciated.

Do tell us what this wonderful substance for relief of toe fungus is. I’m sure some of my readers would like to know.

With blessings and peace,


On Nov 25, 2007, at 10:29 PM, Susan Walker wrote:

Hi Rhio,

I have been reading Doug Graham, and trying the 811 diet for over a year. After much research this year, I have been back and forth relative to my agreement/disagreement with this approach. I have been on your site, and and saw the threads about 811, and also the mention on Doug Graham’s chat, on different posts the past year, of your disagreement with the 811 approach. But I still hadn’t gone to your site to read the posts. Well, I did this today, as I was once again considering delving into studying and implementing the 811 diet, for the umpteenth time.

I very much appreciate your correspondence with several 811 people, and the letters from those who had less than positive experiences with the diet. Because as I see it, anything on the vegsource board, where most of the 811 information is before purchasing the book, is highly hyped, and Doug Graham is exhalted with a religious fervor. So diet seems almost secondary.

What I have felt, bottom line, since finding out about this diet is that the positive, is that it’s fruits and vegetables, but then there’s the issue of eating 5-6lbs or more of fruit at a meal because you “care” to eat that much, and must eat that much to reach the daily caloric needs.

Then there’s the issue of needing to, in my opinion, over or “stress” exercise, as part of the diet, but I see it as a necessity (the extreme exercise everyday) to burn all the sugar from the fruit. So, it’s really a vicious circle/cycle—eating tons of fruit for the calories because you don’t want to eat too much fat or cooked carbohydrates (even steamed vegetables), and then exercising fanatically to get rid of the extreme sugar running through your veins. This is the point I’ve come to many times over the past year, but the 811 argument, vegsource boarders and especially Doug Graham, himself, are so charismatic that I keep dipping back in to at last make sense of it.

Well, I think I’ve gotten the point after spending time on your site. Thank you for your openness, intelligence, healthy looking body and mention of long-lived and healthy-to the-end Dr. Norman Walker as someone we should, if aspiring to example, look to as an example of exceptional health, and who espouses a diet heavy on greens, rather than fruits.

The main reason I’m emailing you is to see if you know who Mary Houston, (from post of January 2007 on 3rd 811 post series), is?  And if so,if you could email me her email address and/or website address. I was very impressed by her knowledge, and her blood studies with those with mostly fruit diets, and raw fooders in general.

Thank you so mcuh.

I really appreciate you.

Susan Walker

On Jan 4, 2008 7:53 AM, Rhotline@rawfoodinfo.com wrote:

Dear Susan,

Thank you for getting in touch with me and letting me know about your ambivalence concerning 811. I am happy that I was able to throw some light and perspective on the situation. Your letter excellently portrays the situation of force feeding large amounts of fruits (tons, as you say) and then as you call it “stress” exercising to try to maintain sugar balance. I will post this in an upcoming hotline. Do you want your full name used or just your first name or a psuedonym?

I have forwarded your letter and email address to Mary Houston. She keeps a very low profile and so I hope that she gets in touch with you. That is the best that I can do.

With blessings and peace,


Hi Rhio,

Thank you. You may use my full name.


On May 22, 2008, at 3:41 AM, Lauren wrote:

Dear Rhio,

I am over 30 and a little confused about how much added fat a woman should have a day in her diet. In fact, I’m very confused over that issue.

I had always heard roughly 2 T. a day was acceptable, but now I see a new book out “80-10-10” and the author says just 10% of your diet should come from fat. That seems very low to me. But if it’s the best way, then I want to abide by it.

I eat a raw breakfast (organic apple and fruit smoothie) and lunch  (broccoli, cauliflower, cherry tomatoes, celery, carrots, red cabbage) and my night meal is usually a big green salad salad accompanied by a baked potato (with 2 T. flax oil over the baked potato).  I’m wondering now if that is too much added oil?

I’ve heard some authors say we don’t need any added oil at all for health (George Mateljan “Baking Without Fat”), and some say we need butter and oil for vitamins/nutrients/the padding of cell membranes, etc. — so I’m just in a quandary over the best and healthiest way to proceed here.

Thank you for reading this, Rhio, and I hope if time permits, you’ll have a quick second to answer and tell me any thoughts you might have on this subject.

Lots of love and good vibes to you always,


Dear Lauren,

There is a whole discussion of the 80/10/10 diet on my website’s Hotlines section, including what I think about the fat issue. Just look for the content that refers to 80/10/10.

With blessings and peace,


May 28, 2008

Dear Rhio,

Wow!!! It is wonderful to read people’s indepth experiences with the 80 10 10. And I feel exactly the same way you do about it.

A million thank yous for having info like that available on your website so we can read and learn from it. It’s really helped me decide what to do. You’re absolutely awesome, Rhio. Again, thanks and (((big hugs))) !!!

Lots of love and good vibes to you always,


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